Society for Sacred Sexuality

Gary Joseph · Posted: August 27, 2004

If your vote is 'conditional' (i.e. 'yes, so long as....'), you may state those conditions here by replying this post, but post general discussion/debate about this issue in the Sister Topic in this Forum.

(Note that the 'condition' of teacher certification is built in to the SSS legal challenge, and this survey. Though certification details are yet to be determined, for purposes of this survey assume they will satisfy professional standards. You are invited to comment on what you believe those standards to be.)

newsacredsexy · Rising Contributor Joined: 18 Jun 2004 Posts: 16

Maybe in light of concerns some people have about male teachers taking advantage of female students ( in this forum ), the law should only allow female teachers.

Doesn't seem fair, but may be a safe way to start.... Eye Roll

Gary Joseph · Posted: November 24, 2004

I think that's a very real potential solution, especially given that in today's society the majority of sacred sex clients are men, and that female sacred sex teachers often very successfully teach other women, even using hands-on methods. Plus, men can work with couples, and other men if everyone's sexual orientation allows.

russ · Posted: December 27, 2004

Absolutely fully legal for both men and women. The fear of predatory men infiltrating people's lives is specious -there are female predators too- and a way to drive men out of sexual healing touch therapies. Why exactly I don't know. For me, as a sexual healer, the idea of doing this work to have sex with lots of partners is ludicrous. It's just too demanding! The skill and sensitivity necessary to effectively facilitate this type of work is antithetical to the PROSTITUTE MIND - wham bam thankyou mam is not what sacred sexuality is about.

All healers need to truly practice their teaching and live what they teach. The multiple demands of sexual healing work need to be offset by rootedness in your connection to yourself and your source. The busier your practice the more important your fundamental discipline of attunement becomes.

Gary Joseph · Posted: January 2, 2005

russ · Posted: April 19, 2005

I have no problem with a certification requirement as long as there is a PRACTICAL DEMONSTRATION component which weighs far more heavily than any textbook testing.
Sexual Healing is not a "by the book technical skill" it is a true calling and art. Who determines "who gets to determine" who is qualified? What are the standards , how is COMPETENCE AND INTEGRITY determined ?
One scenario I will never accept is "a panel of experts" who run the whole shooting match and run a political butt kissing money raising do nothing NATIONAL LEADERSHIP BOARD which is only interested in their agenda without regard for the "hands on " Healers and Teachers who are actually doing the work/play involved with helping men and women regain their sexual/spiritual selves.
Personally, I will not join any such organisation. I choose to let an integrated practice draw whomever will benefit at any level they choose and I will not have my practice limited by any organisation or group. To me this is a waste of time and most certainly the money membership in such an organisation will entail.

Gary Joseph · Posted: April 20, 2005

I agree 100% that any certification should primarily include hands-on demonstration.

As far as who sets the standards & approves certification, that is clearly an important detail to work out. One way to do that is through an open dialog among sacred sex professionals, followed by some sort of majority vote. This Forum is for discussing ideas -- anyone with other suggestions is invited to post them here.

I don't know if it's possible to get around the idea of some sort of 'certification board' (or whatever you choose to call it); the key is to structure it to fulfill the intended purpose, so that it can't devolve into the politicized group you describe.

Here are some suggestions for preventing that:

1) Establish certification standards by popular vote among all sacred sex professionals; the certification board then only has power to approve whether the standards are met, not to set them themselves.

2) The standards should not center around any particular method or system of sacred sex practice; rather, around the capacity of any system to produce genuine results in terms of the personal growth & experience of its practitioners. That way, any sacred sex teacher is free to teach any way they choose, so long as they can demonstrate that it produces genuine benefit, and does no harm.

3) Comprise the certification board of working sacred sex professionals with varied backgrounds & methodologies, who are themselves certified. Further, board positions should be held for a limited term, and rotated through so there is regular turn-over (like the US Senate).

4) There must be no motivation - monetary or otherwise - for board members to favor or disfavor any style of teaching.

5) Different levels of certification can be used, if needed, to distinguish between fundamentally different approaches; this would help the public in choosing teachers of a particular school of thought.

These are just a few ideas; I invite others to offer their own.

russ · Posted: April 20, 2005

If there is any governing body service it should be ONCE AND GONE so there is not any ingrained leadership . The charter drawn up should specify that if no one wants to serve then there is no need for an organization.
I am extremely skeptical of arriving at a workable solution . National membership organizations should represent the membership and it's needs. What usually ends up happening is required dues which goes where and does what and who decides this?
The actions, attitudes and lack of integrity of "the few" should not penalize the many. No possession of "certification" insures either COMPETENCE or INTEGRITY . I have experienced my absolute worst touch therapy sessions from "Nationally Certified" therapists and would not expect possession of any "Sexual Healer Certification" to ASSURE both COMPETENT and INTEGRATED FACILITATORS.

Caveat emptor is still the best policy as this field abounds with phonies, charlatans and hookers masquerading as "goddesses" providing very expensive sex sessions with fancy names, and little sacred sex content to men who will swallow ANYTHING presented by a "Goddess" with nice breasts, a warm vagina, and a sexy voice.

I have no problem with hookers , and/or escorts as such as long as they are not passing off what they do as "Sexual Healing"

Gary Joseph · Posted: April 20, 2005

russ · Posted: April 21, 2005

russ · Posted: April 22, 2005

Yes a 'seal of approval" would be a workable way to go. A practical examination with theory and demonstation of competence AND integrity
would provide a solid foundation. Role playing, LETTERS FROM RECEIVERS of the Sexual Healer's treatment elucidating his/her practice as it applies to real people, a personal in depth interview with the review and approval board and more will put some REAL MEANING behind "Having the seal of approval".
The review and approval board should be compensated for their time
and expertise in doing the examination ONLY: no salaries, expense accounts, Island junkets to exotic "Healing Paradises", no political lobbying or PAC'S, just thorough examinations of applicants done 4-6 times per year so that these examiners can maintain their practices{ board members MUST be actively practicing NO PARASITES allowed to serve}
The "seal of approval" is valid for 3 years and will be rescinded for any proven violation of the "Code of Ethics and Conduct" . Once a healer's seal has been rescinded, 7 years must pass before reapplication is allowed.The cause of the rescinding must be demonstrated to no longer exist.
Serious violations result in lifetime loss of the seal AND possible criminal prosecution. Translation :" WE MEAN BUSINESS! DO NOT BETRAY THE TRUST GRANTED YOU by YOUR CLIENTS and PEERS, it will cost you DEARLY should you choose to do so."
This seal of approval must have real meaning both to healers and, even more importantly, receivers to be of any substantial value AND be respected by ALL.

Gary Joseph · Posted: April 22, 2005

Some good ideas Idea

russ · Posted: May 20, 2005

The American Massage Therapy Association in it's code of ethics stipulates that massage therapists CANNOT engage in a sexual or romantic relationship with a client { even casual dating}. In order to do so the therapeutic relationship MUST be terminated. This is standard "therapeutic ethics" for health care AND mental health professionals. I would demand that the same standard be held for Sexual Healing Professionals.
The experience of Universal Love in the sexual healing safe space must be safeguarded absolutely. No sexual healing therapist should enter into a personal ,especially intimate , relationship with a client. If there is a desire to jnitiate any personal relationship the therapeutic relationship must be terminated. This is mutual safeguard for both clients and therapists in the potentially volitile safe space of Sexual Healing.

Gary Joseph · Posted: May 23, 2005

I think this is an excellent point and I agree 100%.

Board Moderator · Posted: July 30, 2005

[ MODERATOR'S NOTE: The following message was emailed by an SSS user with the request to post it anonymously. ]

Yes. I was told--in massage school--that it is ethically wrong to develop any kind of relationship with someone who is a client...and maybe even someone who WAS a client. I think the term that was used was transference. I think that, if one joins a professional organization for massage therapists, that one commits to abiding by a rule base upon this ethical guideline. (can't remember specifics; sorry)

My communication textbook talked of the same thing but gave a different perspective. I wish I had it handy to reference. The premise was that a client comes to the service provider in need and sees the provider as an expert. And simply that the client once thought (and maybe still does think) of the provider as an expert in that particular field of study is meant to imply that a relationship of equality cannot happen.

My self-help relationship books have mentioned something similar. They have said that it is unhealthy to choose partners that you idolize (implication: you feel inferior to your partner in at least one area).

Now I think this is hogwash. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses. My weaknesses are not someone else's strengths. I cannot find a partner who is equal to me in every way, even if I wanted to! Inquality is bound to happen. Partners are bound to idolize to a degree. One is bound to feel superior in some ways. While the above arguments may have some truth, I think they are a far cry from justification for curtailing relationship-building amongst clients and providers.

Board Moderator · Posted: February 28, 2006

[ MODERATOR'S NOTE: The following message is part of a post by rahasya in the Sacred Sex Society Forum; it has been copied here for relevance to legalizing sacred sex instruction. The entire original post can be viewed here. ]

Yellow

Rahasya said:

If the culture gets to accept sacred sexuality on the basis of how it's regulated, that regulation itself will entrench the culture's way and will mess seekers around by fooling some that the culture has a home for them. I'm not at all comfortable with the idea of certification or "qualifications" in our area. One knows a teacher by the movement one sees in the students. Some are teachers because they have great personal challenges in some areas, and supporting others in those areas advances their own healing. They teach best that which they most need to learn. (Buddha: If you would really learn a thing, teach it.) Others teach because they have completed the path, and have been persuaded (or it's in their aesthetic) to help. The first flavour is more helpful for 99% of the journey. The other fellow's generally the finishing school. Niether can in truth be assessed by "qualifications" or what their "peers" say. In the Buddhist tradition, the way "regular people" recognise the tatagata (enlightened being) is by his "marks". These are things like his stillness, grace, very pleasant body odour and so on. Addressing an awakened disciple, Buddha says “Wherever there is possession of marks, there is fraud ; wherever there is no-possession of no-marks, there is no fraud. Hence the Tathagata is to be seen from no-marks as marks.” Every "condition" one could come up with to test can be learned just as a trick, with the right training. There's the fellow that can sit and watch outrageous hot xxx sex, tailored to his sexual history and be unmoved by it on account of his attainment, and there will be the fellow who is unaroused because he's managed to torture himself, twist his sexuality into compliance. Someone seldom ejaculates, even after prolonged coitus, comfortably choosing how the energy in his body moves, and someone else has developed his musculature to the point where he clenches up and semen is retained, erection is maintained.

Qualifications based on data-retention of a curriculum are just silly, in all fields, but especially in ours. A medical degree doesn't make somone a healer. Niether will passing some examination - written, oral or genital - make someone a tantrika.

The general population could benefit from some of the techniques that we use, but it's seekers that we're here for. Learning discernment, developing a **** detector and maintaining an openness to truth are skills they need to develop in order to find us. In business terms, our market is around 2% of the general population. Most of that 2% aren't on a specifically sexual path, and need relatively little work, mainly release of repression.

Seekers will always need to develop a centered will and a degree of awareness in order to find their teachers. The journey through the distractions of the "world", the help found in others on the path, and finding their teachers are wonderful archetypal struggles, great preparation. I believe we may have to be careful not to be too available! Historically, Tantra schools tended to get in trouble when they got into the business of dealing with the general population, simply providing a healthier and more enjoyable experience than "regular" sex workers. What's done them in is a combination of their sudden wealth (attracts insincere friendships and greedy, insincere disciples, provokes jealousy from once friendly religions), the angry brothel owners' association (obviously), the police (they miss their quid pro quo badly, one of their very few worthwhile perks), and the culture's elite (the "market value" of their daughters is ruined).

The only successful "deal with the culture" that I've heard of was the Indian Tantra Temples being available to heal soldiers physically and emotionally after battle. I wouldn't be comfortable with healing anyone's soldiers these days. I believe that trauma needs to get back into the population, so they feel some of what they politically support. Good feedback.

Maybe sports? Can you imagine what a few Dakinis could do for a team's motivation, their focus, their totality! It would be the mother of all distractions, a perversion of what should probably be our principles, but fun, and coaches in the major sports have big budgets when such a powerful advantage is available.

Another very profitable area could be the world of "personal coaching". Dakini empowered executives... we could have the corporations destroying the planet at twice the rate they are going now, thereby hastening mankind's next maturity test. I don't know if this would be a good thing or not. There's also the strong possibility that the Dakini in question would get the exec's heart all open and vulnerable and quench his repression-driven greed. This may mean it wouldn't be that good for business.

If seekers are really our only legitimate market, it may be useful to take the approach of being a persecuted religious movement, that we have a different sexual way from the culture at large, and just want their passive tolerance for what we do with "each other", not everybody, generally. It's true that to be available to "our" 2%, the 98% get to be aware that we exist. Maybe we need to explain that we'll only do these strange things with "our people", however we define that.

Gary Joseph · Posted: February 28, 2006

These are very good points, along the lines of what Russ has been saying. My position is that if we can come up with a way to legalize sacred sex instruction that is self-regulating, satisfies consumer needs, and is acceptable to society (we can't ignore society's concerns when we are talking about being acknowledged in its legal framework), then I am behind it 100%.

My only point is that IF it comes down to regulated legal instruction or no legal instruction at all, then we should be prepared to accept some regulation.

We have to remember a couple of things here:

1) As already pointed out in earlier posts to this Forum, no regulation can lead to as many issues as regulation, just different ones.

2) Sacred sex instruction has a great advantage over other regulated teaching or service professions in society: it results in positive individual & societal growth. That impacts the need, or lack of it, for regulation of the profession over time. It may be true that in this day & age, when sexual predation is common, sacred sex knowledge is low, drive to make an easy buck is high, and charlatans abound, that some regulation is better than none. But as time advances and sacred sex awareness grows in society, and sexual values change, not only will sacred sex teachers be more self-regulating, but also consumers will be more capable of discerning genuine or more qualified teachers from lesser ones.

We need to acknowledge that legalizing sacred sex instruction is part of a growth process for society, and to accept, if need be, some hand-held baby steps at the start, if it will lead to self-sufficient forward progress later on.

Gary Joseph · Posted: May 1, 2006

Here is a very different approach to the issue of certification that may solve the problem of over-regulation and control of the methods used to teach sacred sex.

Rather than certify teachers based on methodology or other such 'qualifications', teachers can be certified based on the RESULTS they produce. In other words, if a teacher demonstrates that she/he teaches sacred sex effectively (or promotes healing in the case of a sexual healer), then that teacher is contributing to the welfare of society, regardless of what methods they use. After all, the standard for any professional competency should be in the results, not any style or method of bringing them about.

What would need to be decided here is how such results would be evaluated, and by whom. It would be nice if we could simply accept responses randomly surveyed clients, but that would allow certain clients (typically male) to respond that they are 'very satisfied' with the services of common prostitutes, resulting in a certification of such practice. Another option may be to develop a basic test of sacred sex knowledge & practice, and require that a random sampling of a teacher's clients demonstrate that they have adequately learned sacred sex. In the case of sexual healing, it may be possible to evaluate a simple psychological exam before and after, to see if progress has been made.

Note that only a small percentage of clients (say 5-10%) would be asked to complete the evaluation, and only in the new teacher's first year. After that, once the teacher proves him/herself, they can practice freely. This first year would be like an associateship. Also, perhaps clients who are asked to complete the evaluation are compensated for their time in the form of service discounts; this could then be considered as the practitioner's certification or licensing fee.

I welcome other ideas on how this evaluation can be carried out.

This may not be a perfect solution, but it's one to consider, and perhaps can be used in conjunction with other ideas discussed in this forum.